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This is a very oddly structured section that gives very little actual detail on the subject matter, instead listing numerous events that Marcos has attended, without any further context being given. The sources cited are also largely from the Enlace Zapatista, which should be clear is not a reliable source. I think this subsection needs to be completely redone in order to provide actual information about Marcos' activities post-1994, possibly changing the heading to something more appropriate, or else it should be removed entirely. --Grnrchst (talk) 16:24, 5 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I am the author of this section. My purpose was to produce a brief picture of all the events that Marcos took part in so as to show the extent of his role as spokesperson and (for want of a better word) "front man" for the Zapatistas. I take the point made by Grnrchst, in that the purpose of this section is perhaps not made clear, so I intend to alter that in a week or so, but I feel that entirely removing the whole section is too much (throwing the baby out with the bathwater indeed!). Finally, I see no problem with the source (stated above as being Enlace Zapatista) as what is listed here are simple facts (dates, venues, event names), and these are all attested to by other sources (most often journalists reporting in La Jornada) and are not contested by anyone. Lucerito1957 (talk) 06:20, 22 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I see that this section was deleted despite my above justification for writing (and re-writing) it. Since Grnrchst (talk) did not engage in the discussion above, but simply waited a while and then deleted this section, I have re-instated it. However, to address the concerns of Grnrchst (talk) I have moved the actual list of events to an Appendix.
Without this section on the Zapatista struggle continuing, a reader would have no idea of what Marcos did in the nearly 20 years from 1995 to now. Worse, it would give the impresion he had been inactive, when nothing could be further from the truth.
As for sources, these have been added, but there is really no doubt that these events took place. Enlace Zapatista may not be a neutral source, but it contains photographs and recordings from these events, proving that they actually took place and that Marcos was present, which is all that is being claimed in the article. Lucerito1957 (talk) 01:05, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hey, apologies, I didn't see this. I agree that the article does need to be something to display Marcos' recent activities, but I still don't think this list is it. While its purpose is clearer, it still doesn't communicate actual solid information about his activities, it just lists events he showed up to. What level of participation did he have? What did he say about them? Why were these events important to his biography? These are the kind of things I don't think are easily communicated in a simple list. I'm happy to leave this up for now, until a better alternative section can be written, but I think this is a case where using prose would be a lot more helpful for the reader than a timeline. --Grnrchst (talk) 10:51, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The list is not simply of "events Marcos showed up to". As the preamble makes clear, it is a list of events that were either convened by the Zapatistas and where Marcos played a major role by presiding over them and often initiating, organizing, or orchestrating them, or were put on by other organizations at which Marcos acted as representative of and spokesperson for, the Zapatistas. I feel it gives a snapshot of the sheer amount of such activities and endeavors undertaken by Marcos on behalf of the Zapatistas, which in turn gives an insight into his importance within the movement. If you feel this is still not satisfactory, I am happy to discuss this further. Henck’s Subcomandante Marcos, Global Rebel Icon contains a quite thorough timeline of such events up to 2018 that the reader here could instead be pointed to after a short prose discussion. Lucerito1957 (talk) 11:26, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Moving this section from the article to this talk page for safe-keeping. It's possible this can be used as a timeline of some sort but it would need to be sourced to reliable, secondary sources if note worthy. It's currently mostly sourced to unreliable and primary sources.
Extended content
{{Prose|section}}
The following is a list of events (in chronological order) that were either convened by the Zapatistas, and initiated, organized, orchestrated, or presided over by Marcos, or at which he played a major role; or events put on by other organizations at which Marcos acted as representative of, or spokesperson for, the Zapatistas (EZLN):[1]
The "Walls of Capital, the Cracks of the Left" Seminar (April 2017)[41][42][43][44]
ConSciences for Humanity Festival (December 2017)[45][46][47]
"To Watch, to Listen, to Speak: No Thinking Allowed?" Round Table Discussion (April 2018)[48][49][50]
The First "Puy ta Cuxlejaltic" Film Festival (November 2018)[51]
The Second "Puy ta Cuxlejaltic" Film Festival (December 2019)[52][53]
References
^Henck, Nick (2019). Subcomandante Marcos: Global Rebel Icon. Black Rose Press. pp. 9–18. ISBN978-1551647043 has a useful timeline, which goes up to April 2018, that lists most of the events below (as well as others), accompanied by a very brief description of them.
^Autonomedia. "The Dialogue". In its ¡Zapatistas! Documents of the New Mexican Revolution, Ch. 8. New York: Autonomedia, 1994.[1]Archived 28 November 2020 at the Wayback Machine
^See Marcos, Subcomandante (2018). The Zapatistas' Dignified Rage: Final Public Speeches of Subcommander Marcos. Chico, CA: A.K. Press. pp. 39–108. ISBN978-1849352925.
^See Marcos, Subcomandante (2018). The Zapatistas' Dignified Rage: Final Public Speeches of Subcommander Marcos. Chico, CA: A.K. Press. pp. 109–122. ISBN978-1849352925.
^See Marcos, Subcomandante (2018).The Zapatistas' Dignified Rage: Final Public Speeches of Subcommander Marcos. Chico, CA: A.K. Press. pp. 131–201. ISBN978-1849352925.
Could you please engage with the above discussion between myself and Grnrchst (talk) on this matter. There, the question of sources was adressed, and even if this issue was not resolved to your satisfaction, some indication that you have read this, and have some form of argument against the assertion that the sources are reliable (at least regarding their attesting to Marcos being present, in the roles ascribed, at these events) would be appreicated. The case for the inclusion of this list of events is also made above. Again, you are perfectly at liberty to diagree on the matter of this section's usefulness/significance, but affording some reason why (e.g. it's in list format, you don't agree that it shows what Marcos has been doing in more recent years) would be helpful. Thanks Lucerito1957 (talk) 10:47, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @Lucerito1957, if these are noteworthy events, we would expect them to be covered in reliable, independent, secondary sources. If the event is noteworthy, more than just providing a timeline of these events (which we typically do not do for biographies), we should be using those secondary sources to explain to a general audience in prose what import those events had on Marcos's life, since this is a biography. Simply listing events associated with Marcos isn't within Wikipedia's scope, even as an appendix.
Also Wikipedia follows a principle of Bold, Revert, Discuss, meaning that editors are encouraged to be bold, but if their edits are challenged/reverted, the standard is to remove the content, bringing that section to the talk page until there is consensus to re-add it. czar23:43, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
as per the communique published last year, sup Galeano (prior Marcos) has died in october of 2023. Additionally, the communique is signed as "Capitan Insurgente Marcos". The cause is not mentioned in the text. Possible post-mortem title change?